The Personal and Political Saga of Herschel Walker (Published 2022) (2024)

This transcript was created using speech recognition software. While it has been reviewed by human transcribers, it may contain errors. Please review the episode audio before quoting from this transcript and email transcripts@nytimes.com with any questions.

michael barbaro

From The New York Times, I’m Michael Barbaro. This is “The Daily.”

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Joe Biden is the winner of Georgia. This is a huge victory for the Democrats, a state they’ve long eyed.

michael barbaro

Much of the focus of Georgia’s flip from red to blue in 2020 was on its role in delivering the White House to Democrats.

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Democrats have officially secured Senate control after winning both runoff races in Georgia.

michael barbaro

But equally important was what happened a few months later when Georgia voters handed Democrats control of the Senate now.

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Incumbent Senator, Raphael Warnock is hoping to hold on to his current seat.

michael barbaro

Georgia may be the state to determine whether Democrats keep control of the Senate, because of a closely fought race that has become increasingly focused on the personal life and alleged hypocrisy of the Republican nominee, Herschel Walker.

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The former college football star has been battered by a series of scandals in recent weeks, including —

michael barbaro

Today, my colleague Maya King on the story of Walker’s candidacy.

It’s Monday, October 17th.

Maya, after 2020, Republicans had a very big decision to make given how bad things went for them in Georgia, which was who to nominate for the US Senate in 2022. So how do they end up picking Herschel Walker? What’s that story?

maya king

So after the 2020 presidential election and the 2021 Senate runoffs, Republicans had to do some soul searching, some recalibrating. Because one of the reasons that they lost those two Senate seats was low voter turnout in the runoffs.

Many Republicans in Georgia decided to stay home, because they didn’t trust the elections. Donald Trump was saying again and again that the election had been stolen from him, that it was unfair, that the results couldn’t fully be trusted.

So once we get to the 2022 midterms and the Senate primary, Republicans were very focused on finding a candidate who would bring people back out to vote and someone who could bring a little bit of star power or at least some name recognition to match that of the Reverend and now Senator, Raphael Warnock and someone who was able to raise the money and essentially do the work to put back together this Republican coalition in Georgia.

archived recording (herschel walker)

I’m a conservative, not because someone told me to be. I’m a conservative, because I believe in smaller government.

maya king

And that’s why it was such a huge deal when in August of 2021 —

archived recording (herschel walker)

My name is Herschel Walker, and I’m running for the United States Senate.

maya king

— Herschel Walker officially announced that he would be running for the United States Senate.

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I’m a kid from a small town in Georgia who’s lived the American dream, and I’m ready to fight to keep that dream alive for you too.

michael barbaro

And tell me about Walker.

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[INAUDIBLE] gives the ball to Herschel Walker. Walker finds a hole on the right side. He’s outside, and he may be gone.

maya king

It’s hard to overstate just who Herschel Walker is to football fans —

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Herschel Walker, there he goes again.

maya king

— and to Southerners but particularly, to Georgians.

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Touchdown, Georgia.

maya king

He played for the University of Georgia in the 1980s.

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It is now a great pleasure to announce the winner of the 1982 Heisman Memorial Trophy. From the University of Georgia, Herschel Walker.

maya king

And actually won the Heisman Trophy.

michael barbaro

Which even I know is the most prestigious award in college football.

maya king

Yes. He is a demigod in Georgia sports and in Georgia culture. And so when we’re talking about star power and someone who can clear a field and someone who can raise the money, it was all but certain that while Walker was completely untested, that his past was not fully vetted, he would still be the kind of candidate that many in the Republican Party in Georgia were looking to reignite some of that energy that had really been lacking among the Republican electorate in Georgia, heading into a very competitive, very high stakes run for the United States Senate.

michael barbaro

You said that Walker really hadn’t been vetted. So explain why that becomes important.

maya king

There were aspects of Walker’s past that had not fully been reviewed. There is this incident between his ex-wife, Cindy Grossman and Mr Walker that Ms Grossman describes in great detail and interviews, where Walker in a fit of rage puts a gun to her temple and threatens to pull the trigger, threatens to kill her.

michael barbaro

Wow. That’s pretty extraordinary.

maya king

It is, and it’s something that might otherwise disqualify a candidate with far less star power and far less influence than Herschel Walker. However, Herschel Walker has written a book about his struggles with mental illness and mentions this incident, saying that this was an unfortunate consequence of his struggles with mental health. And these concerns were tested a little bit during the primary.

michael barbaro

How so?

maya king

So Gary Black, one of Herschel Walker’s more formidable opponents in the primary, essentially sounded the alarm about Walker in his campaign.

archived recording (gary black)

He is the nominee for the Republicans, the race will be about Herschel Walker and his deficiencies from June to November. Period.

maya king

Black warned voters that if they chose Herschel Walker, that these kinds of allegations would be the type of thing that could cause him to lose a general election. I interviewed Gary Black during the primary a few weeks before the election, and he told me if Herschel Walker is the nominee for the Republican Party in Georgia, the race will be about Herschel Walker.

If I’m the nominee, the race will be about Raphael Warnock. Republicans knew going into this race that this would be part of Walker’s oppo file.

michael barbaro

So how is it that Walker — because we know he does win the primary — ends up overcoming this pretty potent line of attack from Gary Black?

maya king

Well, one of the big things that happens, of course, is that he enters the race with the endorsem*nt.

archived recording (donald trump)

I wanted to tell you that it’s great to be back in this incredible state where —

maya king

Our former president, Donald Trump.

archived recording (donald trump)

The next United States Senator from Georgia, my good friend and what an athlete he is. But —

maya king

This is a close personal friend also of Walker.

archived recording (donald trump)

Herschel Walker has got everything, and we love Herschel. Come up, Herschel.

maya king

And on top of that, again, Walker’s celebrity and star power here is something that really excites Republican voters in Georgia. They like the fact that they have one of the biggest names in the state’s history carrying their party’s banner for the United States Senate.

And he wins the Republican nomination for the Senate by a landslide and defeats Gary Black by more than 50 points by the end of the night.

michael barbaro

Wow. So when Walker wins, I’m quite curious what political professionals in the state and reporters like you Maya started to make of his chances in the general election given everything you’ve just laid out, these liabilities, and given who Walker was about to face, this celebrity in his own right, Democratic Senator Raphael Warnock.

maya king

I think there were still some misgivings there, but Walker also had tried to get ahead of some of these domestic violence allegations, saying that this was something that really did happen and that he has since apologized and made amends. He entered this race already as if he had dealt with those things. And it felt like he was still very much a strong contender against Raphael Warnock.

michael barbaro

So how do the two of them campaign against each other once we enter the general election?

maya king

Very quickly —

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It seemed that right now, Senator Warner doesn’t care about this country. They seem to be putting America second.

maya king

Herschel Walker makes his campaign all about Raphael Warnock and Democratic leadership in Washington.

archived recording (herschel walker)

Right now, since Raphael Warnock been in office, we have higher taxes. We got higher gas prices. We’ve got —

maya king

His argument from day one has been that a vote for Raphael Warnock is very likely to maintain Democratic control of the Senate.

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The country is going down.

maya king

And he essentially tried to equate Raphael Warnock with Joe Biden.

michael barbaro

Interesting.

archived recording (herschel walker)

And if we continue to have leadership like Joe Biden and Raphael Warnock who’s cut from the same cloth, this is what we’re going to get. We’re going to get weak leaders in Washington, and they’ve shown that they’re weak.

michael barbaro

And what about Warnock, what is his message?

archived recording (rafael warnock)

I’m Rafael Warnock. I’m a dad, a Senator, a pastor, but a magician, I’m not.

maya king

Warnock campaigns largely on his record in the Senate.

archived recording (rafael warnock)

So in just a year in the Senate did I think I could fix Washington? Of course not. But every day, I focused on what I could do for our state.

maya king

And goes to not just Democratic strongholds talking to his base but these more deep red counties in central and southern Georgia.

archived recording (rafael warnock)

I work with Democrats and Republicans if it means helping Georgia.

maya king

And one thing that he’s really talked about quite a bit on the stump is his work with Republican senators.

archived recording (rafael warnock)

Ted Cruz and I are both on the Commerce Committee.

maya king

He talks quite a bit about the Cruz Warnock Amendment, this funding that he was able to secure in partnership with Senator Ted Cruz from Texas.

archived recording (rafael warnock)

And so here we are, two men who disagree some might think on almost everything. But we got together on the —

maya king

To expand a portion of a highway connecting Georgia and Texas.

archived recording (rafael warnock)

My job as a legislator is to recognize that there is a road that runs through our humanity that’s bigger than politics, bigger than race, bigger than region.

maya king

All of these arguments that Raphael Warnock is making, one, are his way of talking to those Conservative or independent moderate voters who have some misgivings about Democratic leadership saying that I work with Republicans, and I can continue to do that. And also, I think it’s his way of trying to say, look, I’ve already been in the United States Senate. I know how this thing works. So send me back for a full term.

michael barbaro

Right. What I’m not hearing you say, Maya, is that Warnock addresses Herschel Walker’s personal life, these extraordinary, in some cases, violent stories that are right there for the taking.

maya king

He doesn’t. He really goes out of his way to not say anything about them.

michael barbaro

Why?

maya king

I think it’s a few things. One, Raphael Warnock is a Senator. He’s also a pastor. He has a brand of not going so low. The other thing is this question of whether Raphael Warnock, should he wade into more conversation and talk more about Walker’s past and these allegations if that would give Republicans license to also unearth dirt or controversy that they can find around Raphael Warnock’s personal life.

michael barbaro

And is there something there for them to find?

maya king

In 2020, he and his wife had an argument outside of her home, where she claimed that he ran over her foot. Police, when they were called to the scene, and paramedics found no physical damage to her. And Raphael Warnock was not charged. But the optics of that incident were not great.

michael barbaro

Got it. So for Warnock, there’s very little upside in speaking about Herschel Walker’s history with his wife.

maya king

No. And Senator Warnock and his wife are now divorced. And so the details of those proceedings too, I believe, are things that Democrats and Warnock would rather steer totally clear of and not want to give Republicans any sort of opening to look a little bit further at.

michael barbaro

So at this point, as the general election has gotten underway, we’re talking about the spring, that warning from Walker’s primary opponent, Gary Black, his warning that nominating Herschel Walker would make the race all about Walker and not about the Democrats for all the reasons that you have just laid out, that hasn’t happened, has it?

maya king

No. And the race remains within the margin of error, an extremely tight virtual tie. But the race is very quickly going to become entirely about Walker as a number of shoes start to drop around him and his personal life.

michael barbaro

We’ll be right back.

So Maya, tell us about these shoes that start to drop around Herschel Walker.

maya king

Well, we start to see stories about aspects of Herschel Walker’s personal life that contradict a lot of what he said in interviews and on the stump.

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New at 11:00, Republican Georgia Senate candidate, Herschel Walker is acknowledging a second son.

maya king

The first story to come out is from “The Daily Beast.”

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Herschel Walker is admitting that he has a 10-year-old son who he didn’t raise.

maya king

Where they report that Herschel Walker has a son who he does not see and is not involved in his life.

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Court documents show that the boy’s mother had to sue him for paternity and child support.

michael barbaro

And how does that contradict how he’s campaigning?

maya king

Well, in interviews with a number of conservative personalities and at times, during campaign events —

archived recording (herschel walker)

If you have a child with a woman, even if you have to leave that woman, even if you have to leave that woman, you don’t leave the child.

maya king

Herschel Walker has repeatedly said that a big issue in African-American communities is this problem of absentee fathers. And he says —

archived recording (herschel walker)

I want to apologize to the African-American community.

maya king

— that he wants to apologize to the black community for the ways that black men have not been as active.

archived recording (herschel walker)

Because I know that fatherless home is a major, major problem.

michael barbaro

Fascinating. And suddenly, he is that very absentee father himself it’s revealed.

maya king

Right. Two days later —

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Earlier this week, the Daily Beast reported that Walker had a second son. And wait, there’s more.

maya king

— another story comes out about two additional children that Herschel Walker has who he also does not see.

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Herschel Walker now says that he’s the father of another son, as well as a daughter.

maya king

And so he essentially contradicts himself in a major message that he’s tried to deliver here against absentee fathers, particularly in black households. And then comes another big bombshell.

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According to the Daily Beast, Trump endorsed Georgia Republican Senate nominee Herschel Walker allegedly got a woman pregnant in 2009, and then he paid for her to have an abortion.

maya king

And that comes in the form of a major story about a woman who alleged that Herschel Walker paid for her to have an abortion.

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The Daily Beast has the woman’s receipt for the procedure and the cheque Walker sent her days later. They even have a photo of the get well card Walker apparently set the woman after the abortion. Card reading quote, “Rest, relax, recover.” A signature saying, “Pray you’re feeling better,” with what looks like Walker’s signature H.

maya king

This woman claimed that while she was living in Atlanta, she and Herschel Walker had a relationship, conceived a child. And Herschel Walker told her that the time, 13 years ago when they did conceive the child, was not right for him to have a baby and asked her to have the procedure.

michael barbaro

So I have to imagine this is a very complicated revelation for a Republican candidate for US Senate.

maya king

Especially a Republican candidate like Herschel Walker who has really been an outlier on the right in his staunch opposition to abortion. He has said repeatedly on the campaign trail that he is against abortion with no exceptions.

michael barbaro

So suddenly, Herschel Walker who has contradicted his policy positions on being a father who takes care of his children is now accused of contradicting his position when it comes to abortion by saying no exceptions for an abortion except for the exception of me.

maya king

Right. And I spoke to the woman who said that Herschel Walker paid for her to have an abortion but also asked her to have a second abortion when she became pregnant a second time with the child that is now theirs, one of the children who has been reported to be one of Herschel Walker children that he does not spend time with.

michael barbaro

So Maya, I’m really curious. Once this cascade of revelations becomes public, I mean, it’s really bombshell things to emerge in the heat of a general election campaign, what is the reaction from Republican voters in Georgia?

maya king

The most immediate reaction from the Republican Party is to rally around Walker to wrap their arms around him even tighter. One of the first events that Walker had right after this story was first published a few weeks ago, he went to a Baptist megachurch in Metro Atlanta and was surrounded by around 100 to 150 conservative activists, Walker supporters, largely white but a fair amount also of Black evangelicals who were there to support him.

And so press were not allowed inside this actual event, which was billed as a prayer luncheon for Herschel Walker. But according to some readouts that we got from people who actually attended, Mr Walker was met with a hero’s welcome as soon as he walked in to this luncheon.

He got a standing ovation. People told him that they had his back, that they were on his side. And at the end of this luncheon, circled around him in prayer, laid hands on him, and prayed for the success of his campaign and for his strength in the face of what they saw was an outright attack on someone who they believe is a good man, who was being unfairly targeted for aspects of his personal life.

michael barbaro

And these are religious people, who presumably would be the hardest on Herschel Walker for violating their moral code on something like abortion. You’re saying they are doubling down on their support of him when they learn that he has done this.

maya king

Yes. And I think it’s important to remember here that while Mr Walker is behavior might run counter to what their beliefs are religiously, there’s also the political argument to be made that at this moment has proven to be even stronger that while Herschel Walker has possibly financed these abortions or not been active in the lives of his children, there are many who believe that those stories are wrong, that this is part of a larger agenda that the media might have against Herschel Walker.

And then there are also those religious conservative voters who still believe that even if Mr Walker is a flawed candidate, if he is elected to the United States Senate, he will uphold conservative Christian principles.

michael barbaro

Right. And this is a compromise we saw many religious conservatives make when it came to Donald Trump in 2016. They understood that his personal life did not conform to his Conservative political views. They didn’t care, because they believed he would do their bidding in Washington.

And he did over and over and over again. It seems the same compromise is being articulated here when it comes to social and religious conservatives and Herschel Walker.

maya king

Right. And so I was curious about how some of these voters, the types who might not necessarily come to a church and pray over Herschel Walker but were still deciding whether to support him, might feel at this stage of the campaign.

rober jimison

Hey, how are you?

speaker

I’m good. How are you?

rober jimison

Good.

maya king

So I and our colleague Robert Jimison went to a farmer’s market in the Atlanta suburb of Alpharetta about 30 miles north of the city.

maya

Let’s see, who do we want to talk to?

maya king

And we talked to a number of different kinds of voters.

maya

How would you characterize your politics, which party do you usually identify with more?

speaker

I’m a Republican.

maya

So how are you feeling then, specifically around the Senate race between Raphael Warnock and Herschel Walker? Who do you plan to support at this stage?

speaker

I simply don’t to be honest with you. I do struggle with that one.

maya king

For those who were conservative some of them weren’t sure if they wanted to support Herschel Walker.

maya

Do any of these allegations get in the way of your ability to make a decision on whether or not you’ll support Herschel Walker?

speaker

Yes.

I don’t like the hypocritical side of the Herschel Walker thing.

I think there are a lot more qualified candidates for the role.

I wish there was someone else but there’s not. Disappointed the Republican Party chose him.

maya king

Some people felt like they were going to leave the Senate portion of the ballot completely blank.

speaker

Probably not voting.

I might just not vote on that particular category.

Since I’m a Republican, it might be something I don’t check off.

maya

So you wouldn’t vote then for Raphael Warnock? It would either be you vote for Herschel Walker or nobody?

speaker

Yes.

Correct.

maya king

And then there were others who said —

speaker

I mean, I’m probably going to vote for Herschel. I went to Georgia Tech. Yeah.

maya king

I am a Republican, and I want to see Republican control of the Senate.

speaker

Raphael Warnock has been a rubber stamp for Biden. So just don’t give me someone who supports Biden 100 percent. That’s really it.

maya king

And they understood that while Herschel Walker might have a lot of personal baggage, he would still be a reliable Republican vote in the chamber at the end of the day.

speaker

If you get too involved in the private life of any politician, you won’t vote for any of them. I mean, let’s be honest, they’re politicians. And we all know that basically, politicians have a certain degree of lying, cheating, and stealing in them, or they wouldn’t be politicians.

maya

Thank you.

maya king

So there are a variety of outcomes that could take place here. But it’s important to remember also that for all of these voters who are saying that they’re not sure, these voters who are weighing leaving the Senate portion blank or voting for the third party candidate, these are the voters that Walker is really going to have to work to win over.

And we’re still talking about a swing state where elections could be decided by fewer than 20,000 votes. And so it’s not a great sign for the Walker campaign that the kinds of voters who would normally be all in for a Republican ticket that there is a critical mass of those voters who are saying that they’re just not quite sure if they can cast a ballot for Herschel Walker yet.

michael barbaro

Right. If they’re telling you they might leave their ballot blank, that’s a problem for Walker.

maya king

Yes.

michael barbaro

So I want to return to the very beginning of our conversation, because it was about a tough decision that Republicans had to make in a swing state. Gary Black said, if you pick Herschel Walker, this race will become all about Walker. That has very much happened.

And it seems it has happened to the detriment of Republicans. And it has made this more of an uphill battle than perhaps it needed to be.

maya king

Every moment that voters spend thinking about Herschel Walker’s past and background is a moment that Republicans wish they would spend thinking about Joe Biden and the economy instead.

These are the backroom conversations that conservative strategists are having when they express their concerns about just how well Walker might perform in November. And so it’s clear that Walker’s damaging reports, his performance over the last several months is bringing back some pretty painful memories for Republicans in Georgia, who fear that they may have sabotaged themselves, that they may have traded in political viability for celebrity.

michael barbaro

Well, Maya, thank you very much. We appreciate it.

maya king

Thank you.

michael barbaro

The Times reports that since Herschel Walker’s ex-girlfriend accused him of paying for an abortion, four different polls have found that he’s fallen behind Raphael Warnock by an average of 2.5 percentage points, suggesting that the scandal has hurt Walker’s standing with Georgia voters.

During their first and only debate on Friday night, Warnock made a rare and pointed reference to Walker’s personal life saying, quote, “My children know that I am with them and for them and that I support them in every single way that a father does.”

We’ll be right back.

Here’s what else you need to know today. Britain’s new Prime Minister, Liz Truss, who has already been forced to abandon her flagship domestic policy of cutting taxes and to fire her top economic advisor suffered a new humiliation over the weekend when she was publicly repudiated by the man she has appointed to stabilize her government.

archived recording

It was wrong to cut the top rate of tax for the very highest earners at a time when we’re going to have to be asking for sacrifices from everyone to get through a very difficult period.

michael barbaro

In a series of interviews, that man, Jeremy Hunt said that Truss’ economic policy had been a mistake.

archived recording

We won’t have the speed of tax cuts we’re hoping for, and some taxes will have to go up. That’s the reality of the very challenging situation we face.

michael barbaro

Because Truss had no plan to pay for her plan tax cuts, the proposal spooked Britain’s financial markets, sent the value of the country’s currency plunging, raised borrowing costs for the government, and has left many wondering if Truss may soon be ousted as prime minister.

Today’s episode was produced by Rachel Quester, Sydney Harper, and Nina Feldman with help from Robert Jimison. It was edited by Patricia Willens and Mark George contains original music by Marion Lozano and Dan Powell, and was engineered by Chris Wood. Our theme music is by Jim Brunberg and Ben Landsverk of Wonderly.

That’s it for The Daily. I’m Michael Barbaro. And yes. I have a cold. I’ll see you tomorrow.

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